Lead Generation Secrets and Tech Tips with Pat Nadeau

In this episode of Total Agent Access, we are joined by the dynamic Pat Nadeau, who takes us through his inspiring journey into the world of real estate. Pat opens up about the challenges he has faced and the innovative strategies he employs for lead generation and client management. He highlights the significance of adding value, building trust, and managing client expectations.

Pat delves into the tools and technology that streamline his daily business operations, offering practical advice that you can apply to your own practice. He also explores the power of social media in real estate, emphasizing the importance of authenticity and the profound impact of mentorship and personal growth.

Throughout the conversation, Pat stresses the value of consistency, the effective leveraging of time, and the alignment of goals with one's purpose. His definition of success is centered on giving his all and being the best person for every interaction. This episode is packed with actionable insights and inspiring stories that will help you elevate your real estate game. Tune in and learn from Pat's wealth of knowledge and experience.

Links:
Instagram: patnadeau_exp
Website: kingstonrealestatehub.com

Takeaways

🔥The importance of adding value and leading with value for clients.
🔥Building trust with clients is crucial for success in real estate.
🔥Managing client expectations and setting a roadmap for the transaction is essential.
🔥The best CRM system is the one that you use consistently.
🔥Utilizing social media and maintaining a database are key for real estate success. 
🔥Social media is a powerful tool for real estate agents, providing access to a wide audience and fostering referral networks.
🔥Authenticity and consistency are key to success in social media marketing, with a focus on being genuine and engaging.
🔥Mentorship and personal growth are essential for professional development, with a focus on continuous learning and attending industry events.
🔥Success is defined by leaving everything on the table and being the best person for every interaction, aligning goals with purpose, and leveraging time effectively.

Transcript

0:00

Welcome back to the podcast. This one is I would say it's a month in the making here that, you know, we're with Pat and I do. And first time we tried this, Pat's computer packed it in. So we, Pat, did you have to buy a new computer to be able to do this? I did not. I strongly considered it though, but I think the prices have gone up since I bought this one. So I opted for a new screen, but yeah, I came back to, I was, dude, I was excited to do this. I'm still excited to do this, but I was so excited. I sat down. I like, as I run the rest of my life, I have five minutes to spare. So I was ready to set everything up and I'm like, here we go. And my whole screen was just black. So I could use. the laptop but I couldn't use anything else and I have multiple monitors and none of those monitors will work with my laptop so I don't know what happened but didn't buy it. I was too cheap to buy a new one possibly should have just bought a new laptop but we're here today it's all matters. We faced adversity and we made it. Absolutely. We got it together and we're going to provide an amazing podcast here for our listeners. So tell us a little bit about your background and how you got started in real estate. So, yeah, so my background I grew up in Kingston, Ontario, small town in between Ottawa and Toronto. Grew up playing hockey and my father was in real estate. So I learned a lot about work ethic from those two things. And I actually didn't want to get into real estate to start with. I wanted to sell something because I love dealing with people. And I thought, what's my favourite thing that I would, it wouldn't, you know, they say, What's the saying? If you do what you love, you'll never work a day in your life. So I wanted to sell beer. So we had some connections at Molson and stuff and that's my original route that I wanted to go. When I was away at university or college, I should say, I didn't plan on going to university, I'm not that smart, but I got connected with some realtors up there that my dad knew and started talking about what an internship might look like and... And I ended up getting an internship with this real estate company as an inside sales agent. So it was very different than how it was at home. You know, my dad ran his own brokerage back here with the average age of our agents were like probably 40. And maybe it was maybe even higher than that. And the company that I joined, they built the fastest growing remax in the world for two years in a row while I was there. We had a Netflix room, we had a gym, we had a... ping pong table, disco balls in the office. I say it was like Wolf of Wall Street. And so at the ripe age of, I think I was like 19 or 20 when I started with them, I fell in love with real estate because I saw these guys that were 30 in their early 30s driving beautiful cars and being very successful. And I fell in love with it. It was probably the hardest thing that I could have done being an inside sales agent. But I fell in love with the opportunity of real estate. And then... Yeah. And then, so I got my real estate license as I was making cold calls for them for two years. And then came back to Kingston because that's where my network is and where it seemed like it made more sense for me. And, and the rest is history. What was that first year like of real estate once you got licensed? Yeah. Terrifying. It was the, it was a lot harder than I anticipated. So, you know, with my dad in the business, I think I had, I think I had the same misconception that I think a lot of people have about me is that like, things might've been easier because of my last name and it just totally was not. I was 21 years old and I was selling properties to people who were old enough to be my parents and I was living in my parents basement while I was doing that. So, It was it was difficult and like my my biggest objection that I was terrified out was somebody asked me how old I was so Everybody's like not wearing the suits and stuff anymore. I started wearing a suit because it was like a fake it till you make it I wanted to be so extra professional That I wouldn't get that that objection But yeah, the first year was tough. Obviously like most agents. I don't think I did a deal for the first six months It was, I mean, I ended up getting to 20 units that year, which was good, but, you know, I thought I didn't anticipate how difficult it was going to be to generate business for sure. Yeah, what were some of those challenges besides the age that you encountered in that first year? Some of the challenges in the first year. I think, I don't think I realized how much follow up was entailed, which it's crazy that I'm saying this because like what I did before was follow up. Like what I did was inside sales where I was following up with people. I think, so yeah, I think the challenge was how long it actually took to make a sale. And the biggest thing that I didn't realize was the actual effort that I was gonna need in order to do that, you know, the amount of business that I wanted to get through. You know, I had some pretty big ambitions. I wanted to hit, my dad did 30 transactions his first year in real estate when he was doing it part time. So my goal was to do 31, right? Like I wanted to hit 31 or 40. That was my big, you know, that's where I wanted to get to. And I think I underestimated the amount of activity that it was going to take for me to get there. Yeah. did you learn in that time that still guide you today? I think, what kind of key lessons I learned in the first year? I think how important it is to show up with that, like to lead with value for clients. One of the biggest things that I say now in my listening presentations and everything is like, business isn't just asked for, you don't just get business, you have to earn it. So that was one of the key things that I learned I think in that first year. and was like going above and beyond for clients and like, how can I go out of my way to be different than my competition? How can I go to my way to provide more value than the other agent? Because otherwise they're probably just going to use the other agent. And I was up against that, you know, I think it's all your inner dialogue. I don't think it really mattered how old I was, but I had that inner dialogue of like, I have to outperform these other agents that might have the excuse of like they've been in the business longer. So I don't want somebody to choose someone else because they've been in the business longer if they could choose me because I was providing more value. How has the real estate market changed in your area of Kingston since you first started? Well, the average sale price when I first got into business was like 300 ,000. So it's doubled. It's like 600 now. The average days on market was like 90 days and it's now like 30 days. So it's changed a lot, but also a lot. It's changed. Like how we do business has changed a lot. So, you know, I always make the joke like, back in the day. But like the first few offers that like with a lot of the younger agents at the office, I'm always like, back in my day, we had to. you know, submit offers by hand uphill both ways, right? And I make that joke, but I literally the first like DocuSign came out after I was in the business for like a year. So things have changed a lot and like how we do business has definitely changed a lot. But you adapt or die, right? That's a big mentality that we've taken on here. So yeah. signatures man, changed my life. I think I was in real estate for about 10 years and I can remember heading out at 10, 10 .30 at night to go get signatures quickly because you didn't want to leave it for the morning running over to my client's house in dead of night in dead of winter and getting them to sign something. But that is a huge significant change. Most definitely. Now. imagine. My dad was doing the same thing, right? It was like, I mean, yeah, it just made you not have to physically be there. So you could instantly do way more deals or have way more time for your family or whatever you wanted to commit your time to, right? It's crazy. you stay informed on market trends and the changes in your area? Mark, it's, well, I mean, I think it's just being involved. I'm not a reader. I'm not somebody who's going online and reading blog posts or doing my research. Like I need to be around the people that know I learned through doing, I learned to people seeing do it. And I learned through like communication. So I just try to be in the right room. My brother has that saying, he says all the time, like it's all about being in the right room. So I'm just trying to be at as many conferences, meetings, whatever it takes. Like we're doing training with our team twice a week. and then we could collaborate with all the HB agents as much as we possibly can. That's where I find I get my information, the information that actually sticks, because I can't, I couldn't even read a small paragraph, let alone an unnews article about the market. So I'm getting into the communication through the resources that we have at our company and through our team. So I guess leveraging other people and being in the right room is kind of how I stay up to date on everything that's going on. This year, I've gotten a little bit more specific with, I just become obsessed with like Excel spreadsheets. I find they really tell a story. Like the numbers, there's no, there's no fudging the numbers. Like the numbers tell a story, right? So I've gotten a little bit more obsessed with like when we're doing a property evaluations and stuff like that, actually breaking down, you know, the days on market and average sale price and stuff like that with my own Excel sheets. And then everything that has to do with my business, looking at that and comparing it to past years and stuff like, I have too many Excel spreadsheets. Like it's, it's a, I have an entire modern, office that is just devoted to that. So that's kind of my personal way with my own business. But with the market transits, it's with everybody with our group. Yeah. How do, now you touched on it a little bit, but how do you differentiate yourself from other agents? nobody likes this line, but I like to say it's the Donald Trump approach. So, so the way I look at it is like, you know, birds of a feather flock together. The people who like me are going to want to do business with me and the people who are not like me are not going to want to do business with me. And you have to be able to accept that. I think one of the hardest things that when I was in my first few years, I really struggled with the, it was like my social media and my like, you know, personal life was here. and my real estate business was here. And I struggled with putting them together. But I had this realization that like, this is my business. This is also part of who I am. And I had to get comfortable with the fact that, you know, like what I decided to do was I wanted to be okay with, you know, people like me, great. If they hate me, whatever, but they're not gonna have an excuse that they don't know me. So. I wanted to get out there as much as I humanly possibly could and just get comfortable with the fact that people may not appreciate whatever it is that I'm about, which is very difficult because the internet is a scary place and the keyboard is the most dangerous thing in the world right now. But the Donald Trump approach is just kind of like, doesn't matter what you say, if you like Donald Trump, you don't like him, you can't say you don't know. So my approach was just get out there as much as humanly possible. And every single time I do anything, it's like, how could I do this in my way? How could I do this different than the other agents, which is important to know what they're doing, but how could I do this in my own way and put my own spin on it? Because people need to feel like they know you and it's all I'm making like you and that's okay. Absolutely, the no -like -trust factor. So getting into lead generation a little bit, what are your top three strategies for generating leads? okay. I got to work my way backwards up to the number one, but so obviously I started as an inside sales agent. So, the, like online lead generation is, is where I, you know, where, where I'm comfortable with, I think it's a really difficult thing, but it's easier than a lot of the other ones just from a perspective of you can do it from your desk. Like you can sit down for two hours a day and you call a hundred people. it may be difficult to come in contact with a hundred people somewhere else. number two, the biggest thing that I realized as, you know, like a couple of years into the career was like looking after the people that, you know, have looked after me. So the referral thing, but it's like, how do you look after them? How do you give them an experience that they're not going to, you know, they're not going to forget and don't give them an excuse not to use me again. So just looking after them, trying to find points of value within my sphere, but the number one. lead generation approach that I've always done throughout my career. Actually, to the sphere one, I would say social media that ties into that. It's like keeping in touch. How do I stay top of mind? But the number one lead gen is open houses, 100%. That's how I started my business. And if everything went to the wind tomorrow, that's how I would regenerate all my business all over again from scratch. So. Talk me through a typical Patnadoo open house. What do you do? Well, so kind of related to your last question, the question that I asked myself is how can I be different than other agents? So the first thing is other agents most, and it's not about like comparing yourself, but it's just like, how can I impress somebody to the point when they come into it? Cause it's an interview. I don't think a lot of people realize that it's the only opportunity that an agent has to have somebody walk onto their car lot per se, where they're a relatively interested, you know, lead. they don't have an agent or else they wouldn't be there. They're basically the highest qualified prospect that you can get. And the interview process starts from the first time they even have any interaction with me at all, which is like, okay, so they see my, if it's my listing, which if I was starting all over, you know, when I was, when I was starting, it wasn't always my listing, but how does the listing look, right? But then the next thing is the open house sign. So when they're driving around the neighborhood, I bought 15 signs that are, big sandwich boards so that you can't miss my face. If I'm doing an open house in your neighborhood, you're gonna be annoyed with me by the end of the week. I put those open house signs up early in the week. That's an extra five days of advertising for free. I only do open houses for an hour. Most people do a Sunday two to four. I only do them for one hour. The reason I do them for one hour is so that people can, everybody that comes in is gonna see each other. There's some sort of a buzz. It looks like we've done a better job just because we've condensed it and had more people in the same room. So it kind of creates that sense of urgency. And then it's a script when they come through. Like we have the same script for every single open house to pre -qualify the buyer and pitch them. Every single person, if you come into my open house, I love you, but you're getting pitched. I'm going to try to pick you up as a buyer because I believe that I'm the best person to help you. Which I think is another thing is I know that I can help all these people are coming to me with a sickness and I have the prescription. So, I want to earn everybody's business. And I guess it's also like, outside of the script is like, how can I leave every single person that comes in better than I found them? So, so yeah, and then follow up, obviously, fortune's in the fall. So they got to go into a database and all that kind of stuff. That's where, you know, that's what actually matters. But that's a typical pattern at open house and lots of country music, of course. lots of country music really. Now I'm a buyer coming into your open house, pitch me. Hey, welcome. What caught your eye about the property today? Hey, I was just driving by, I've been seeing your signs for a while. Okay, no problem. So, and what brought you guys in? Have you guys considered making a move? Yeah, we're thinking about it. Okay, and you guys live around the corner. So what would need to happen in order for you guys to make a move? Are you thinking of looking in this neighborhood or are you just wondering how this property compares to yours when you were going to go to sell? You know what, we're looking to upsize a little bit. Our house is a little bit small for us and we love the neighborhood and would love to stay in the neighborhood. And of course we'd have to sell our place. Okay, fantastic. So which one would you want to do first? Would you want to look and find your property and your dream home in this neighborhood first, or are you looking to sell first? We'd probably want to know where we're going. So definitely want to buy first and then sell. Fair enough. So, and how have you been looking at properties so far? Have you looked at realtor .ca or like you say you were just driving around looking at and you saw my sign. Have you guys been online looking at properties so far or? Yeah, just passively. Okay. So let me tell you this. I mean, the way that you've been looking at property so far is great and that's how most people start their process. However, the way the process finishes and the best way to find the property is usually through an automated property search. So basically what we do is we take your entire criteria and boil it down. If it's a property like this, then I would say, okay, this is a three bedroom home. That's a bungalow on a beautiful lot. So I would, I would take your criteria, put it into our search engine and it would only send you properties that meet your exact criteria. because the challenge can be finding that, you know, that perfect home can be a challenge if you're looking for something very specific, to be honest. And then this depends on how the property is. If it's an easy sell, like in most neighborhoods I'm doing open houses, it's a property that I can resell pretty quickly. Those are the ones you want to work. So let's say it's an easier property, then I might try to say something along the lines of like, you know, hey, this is a property that does similar properties do. I mean, this one's one of a kind, obviously, it's our property. It's a great listing. But properties like this do come up relatively frequently. So the next best thing that I might be able to do So obviously I can set that property search for you That's gonna make sure you never miss out on a dream home because you ever heard of the silent market of real estate where the good deals go before anyone's ever even heard of them That's what I'm gonna tap you into it's because the properties that are really really good They sell before they even hit realtor .ca Sometimes it can be up to a three -day wait between MLS our back -end MLS system and realtor .ca So I'd tap you into that, but the other thing I would like to do and probably would be the best thing for you guys at this point based on what you guys are telling me is I'd love to get you a property evaluation on what your home might be worth. There's no obligation to ever work with me, but all we would do is come in, show you what other properties I've sold for. Obviously you said your property is very different than this one. I'm sure it's, you know, you have lots more features, you know, and you're in a different price range as you said, you're downsizing. So basically what we would do is you come in and show you a bunch of comparable properties in the area that I've sold, get you a good idea as far as. how much money you'd be left within your pocket at the end of the day after all expenses. And that might give you a better idea as far as like what you guys are gonna spend on another property. And hey, at the end of the day, obviously if you guys decide to list, I'd love the opportunity to earn your business. Does that sound fair enough? And then I go into the search. Everybody cares about the search, nobody cares about selling the property. Like usually that's the motivation, right? Is everybody wants to buy something first. So getting them on a search and priority access is definitely the best thing to start with. But you know. And the other closing thing is, so I leave with the search, I get them signed up on that, I get some level of commitment. But then the other thing is book an appointment from that open house. So if they have a house of silence around the corner, hey, what are you guys doing after this? I'm done at four o 'clock. Would that be all right if I swing by, I could take a couple of pictures and get you a really accurate number. While in there, I'd also go over some things, some tips that might help you maximize how much you're able to get for your property. And even better, I'd probably be able to tell you the things not to do to get the most amount of money for your home. That's not like somebody that beneficial for you guys at this point. I love that Pat. I love that you went right in and closed for the appointment. It's a lot of stuff. Like some agents and when you know I'm training agents they just go for the search. Mm -hmm. your goal should always be to set up an appointment, even if it's just an introduction sort of appointment, but always be closing for that appointment. And you can't do that until you have all of the information on your client. Now, how do you maintain these relationships with current and past clients? Value, it's just, I know it's a simple answer, but it's like trying to find a way to create value. This was one of the things I really struggled with in my third year in the business was I was following up with things like, hey, how are you guys been? Hey, anything catch your eye lately? Like, nope, that doesn't leave anybody better than I found them. That doesn't add any value to anybody's life. So the question I need to ask them is, or I need to ask myself is, how can I help? this person's day to day. So what is it they're trying to do and how can I help facilitate that or make that easier on them? Which it's not an X is an O's answer. Depends on the situation. So in the situation of this lead come through the open house, I would be setting myself on a search because like it depends on how it all goes, but I'd be setting myself on a search. If that lead goes cold and I do a CMA or an evaluation. then I'm setting myself on a search that if anything gets listed in their area or sold in their area, I'm gonna send them an email and say, hey, did you see this one just came out? This is comparable to your home. I feel like it has this or doesn't have this. They wanna know what their home's worth and they also wanna know what's out there. So I'm keeping them on that search and let them know what's out there. But the other value articulation is like, this is what contributing factors go into the sale price of your home. Maybe it's market stats. I don't love the market stats. I know a lot of people talk about that, like, you know, market about like, here's how the markets been doing over the last 90 days. I'm a high D personality. If you send me a market like update, it's going to my junk mail pretty quickly. So, it's like, how does that impact your specific property? And the thing is like, it takes a, it takes a lot of work. I'll say the cuss words. It takes a lot of work to do these types of things. And a lot of times they're all for nothing. And they tell you, they called another agent, but. It's worth it to outperform and outwork everybody else to do more business. And that's what it takes in our business. We're in a service industry. We need to lead with better service. Now, what customer relationship management software do you use to keep on top of all these people? So I think the best answer to this is like the best CRM system that there is in the world is the one that you use. And so we just use KVCore. I've heard there's a lot of other good ones. I know, you know, everybody goes on about fall boss, but we've used it. I've used it for the years and it's what works. And, you know, my only thought about the CRM systems are, like I said, like it's the one that you use. So as long as you're setting a task every time you've ever had a conversation from a task, That's all you really need it for. You can use an Excel spreadsheet if you really needed to. But yeah, that's a system that we use as KVCore because it's obviously free with the XP. So yeah, that's one that we've used to stay on top of things. So how do you manage client expectations through all of this? Well, that is a lesson that's taken me way too long to learn. but, I think it's like from making those mistakes throughout the years of, you know, watching deals fall apart because of things that I could have possibly stopped beforehand. I've just kind of realized those things over the years of like, this is what could blow a deal up. This was what could blow up. Like, here's an example is we are just on the phone before we got on, talking about inspections. I have a conversation. With every single buyer, if it's not a buyer appointment, we have some sort of conversation where I lay a roadmap of like, this is step -by -step how the transaction is going to go. You need to anticipate these hurdles along the way. Because one of the things that can blow up a deal like crazy is people have an unrealistic expectation about how an inspection goes and how we negotiate that. And I had it just happen to me when I was representing a seller, somebody came in and wanted the seller to do an unrealistic amount of things. So. The buyer presentation is how we do that for buyers is we have a strict buyer presentation with somebody who hasn't purchased before. We walk them through every single step of the way so they know the hurdles that we're gonna go into and they know what we're gonna see. And the other thing is, I think the number one value that a real estate agent can bring to their clients, the number one thing that contributes to why they select you in the first place is one word and that's trust. You need to earn somebody's trust and at these original listing appointments and buyer appointments, when you go through your process for listing their home or you go through their process of, them purchasing something. It's also you going, here's all the things that are going to happen so that when I tell you, hey, this is how competitive that this property is going to get when we go to buy one, you trust me and you know that I have your best interests at heart because I've already walked you through what could possibly happen when we get into this. so those two presentations, I guess, and then also it's just communication on the way because you know, I think it's our job to manage expectations and order. Everybody wants a smooth transaction. That's like one of the biggest things. They want the most amount of money and they want a smooth transaction. So, setting those expectations ahead of time and having those conversations is like crucial. and then making sure that the roadmap goes smoothly. So we have a travel board for every single transaction, whether it's listening or buying. It's like step one, step two, this is what happens so that we don't drop the ball either. and we make sure that we're on top of them. I also think you have to take responsibility for every part of the transaction. That's a big mistake I made in my first few years. I just said, that's the mortgage broker's job, that's the lawyer's job, that's his, no, no, we're everything. We're the therapist, we're the realtor, we're the lawyer, we're the, like we have to take responsibility for the entire transaction and oversee everything. So I have to pretend that I'm the person buying the house and make sure that every step of the way has been fulfilled to them. And that's, and to make sure we don't forget it when we're doing a high volume, it's through the Trello boards. That's good that you mentioned Trello and KVCore, but what are some of the other tools and technology do you guys use to manage your business daily? So I used to be a huge I'm actually sitting in my old office Which has no windows which I selected on purpose because I get extracted easily I moved my way up. It was a big moment moving my way to a window but what I used to do is I would have like this this room is like a I don't know a 12 by 10 room and every square inch of the walls were covered in whiteboards. So I have a whiteboard for everything Now I've got all tech savvy and I have an Excel spreadsheet. So I have my monitors in front of me and one of my monitors is specifically just an Excel spreadsheet. The one that I like the most is my business. It's I call my business metrics, which is basically all the deals that are like haven't closed yet when they close. So I know what we can do for all the closing gifts and all that kind of good stuff. What's conditional and then all my active buyers and sellers and more specifically, which buyers are ready to pull the trigger. and which potential sellers are closest to being ready to list. Right now, somebody starting off, what do you think the must have apps and software are for real estate right now? I think you need all forms of social media and you need to be on there as much as possible and then you need a database and like I said it doesn't matter what database it's the best database is the one you use so you need a database and you need to work it every single day. You know how important is social media in your business strategy? I have been consistently blown away by social media and how powerful it is. I was lucky enough to get ranked two years in a row now, number one in Kingston for social media out of all the real estate agents. So very happy for that. But back in the day, so when my dad first started his business, let's say he was 20 years ago, but in the last 15 or 20 years, the big number one thing and the way he always spent like the biggest like ad budget was always obviously newspaper, but like billboards, right? And the reason that you would be on a billboard is because you want to get as many people driving by your face every day as possible. and so the most expensive billboards are where the most amount of people travel, right? So if on a, on a main highway, that's the most expensive billboard, cause you have the most amount of people going by every single person and their dog literally. are on social media every single day for like three to four hours a day. I don't know if you ever looked at the screen time you can check on your phone. It's embarrassing. Yeah. So why wouldn't you be where every single person is driving by every single day as many times as you can be per day. So that was kind of like the, when the mindset shift, I watched Google Becky speak at one of the, one of the conferences about how crazy her business was gone. And it's just about being top of mind. It's just you, like at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what you're saying and how good the content is. It's you saying, what you're really saying is you're picking up your phone and you're going, Hey, my name is Pat Nadeau and I'm in real estate. Don't forget if you're looking to buy a home, you know what I mean? Like that's, that's the subliminal message that you're consistently selling, sending. And it's, it's very easy to articulate value. All you have to do with social media is the echo effect. What are you talking about every single day and just talk to your phone about it and post it on online. One of the things I struggled with the hardest was. like the blending of the two, like I was talking about earlier, but I just think it's about social media and committing to using it, no matter how you want to use it, just be on there and be yourself and be genuine and it'll work out. The other thing that surprised me about social media though, not only was like, you know, picking up buyers from it was the referral network that has grown. Like I've gotten connected with so many phenomenal agents because of social media. I can't even tell you there's not another lead platform that has produced that level of income. Obviously it's all referral income, but, but that's the best lead you can ever have. Somebody's already put in a good word for you and sends a client your way. That's a home run. So yeah. for me, it's Instagram, but I think that's a similar answer to the CRM question. It's like the best platform is the one you use. So, and also the question is, where's your demographic? Who are you trying to target? Because if you're just getting in the business and you're 20, if I was getting in the business now and I was 21 years old today, my demographic is probably not on Instagram, it's probably more so TikTok, right? So, whereas for my dad, I know that his demographic is 100 % Facebook. Like most of the people that he interacts with every day is through Facebook. So that's where he needs to be. It's like, who are you wanting to get to? I think you need to be on all of them, but focus on one, get really good at it, and then figure out the rest. For me, it's Instagram. a strong online presence? I think just be genuine and be yourself. That's something that we all it's way too easy to get away from because like that's the basis of social media is to be something that you're not essentially So don't be scared to be you know, be on the camera There's only one really there's only one really piece of advice about social media and its consistency Just be on there be on there every single day and be yourself as much as possible because I you know I really I don't love when you see like you go to a coaching conference or something and people are like, yeah, I post like every you know, three days a week and Monday, Tuesday, and this time, whatever you can be systematic in the way that you film content, but it comes off as not as genuine as then like some of the best videos that I've had that or like the highest interaction that I get is when I get in my truck after an appointment where I'm like, my God, I can't believe this just happened. Or here's a conversation that I've had with so many people this week that I should comment on it. And people end up interacting because it's just me also. Also, when you have really professional videos, people don't watch them quite as much as the unprofessional ones that you shoot in your car, because I think people are expecting you to mess up. Like, if it's you in front of your camera in your car, they're like, all right, what's this guy gonna say? You know, like anything could go wrong. And that's you and who you are, right? It feels like you're having a conversation. So I think just consistency. yeah, I also think that the professionally produced ones, people automatically think that there's going to be a pitch, right? Like, you're going to try to sell them something instead of you in your truck, just recording something, go those videos go way farther than the professional ones most definitely. Yeah, I can, I gotta say like I definitely do both. But I, you know, I think the one big thing that people struggle with is that they need some crazy production. And, you know, when my social media had the biggest like growth spurt, it was not anything, I had nothing professional on there. It was just me talking to my phone or, you know, being the goofball that I like to be. So. Do you put personal stuff on Instagram as well on your content and how do you balance that? yeah, I, I, I believe in that. Like, I think people want to do business with who they know, like, and trust, and they're not going to get to know me unless I show my personal side. And also, like I said, like, you know, birds of a feather flock together. So they're going to find commonalities with me that, that they may not necessarily find other people. One of the things that I really struggle with is like a big part of my personality and like who I am is I love the outdoors. I love to hunt and fish. And I know that hunting can be something that, not everybody really, you know, adores. And so I held that part of my life back for a long period of time, but it's who I am. And I just decided like, this is how I wanna express who I am. I don't wanna hold anything back. And I don't want people to feel like they really genuinely know who I am. And if they don't like me for that, then that's okay. And I'm onto the next one. So yeah, I put personal stuff on there and I think you have to. I think you have to be yourself. And that's... People want to do business with who they know, like, and trust, but you know who they want to do business with the most is their friends. So, you know, you have to get to know your friends and be a friend on there. You can't just be professional. And also it's not that engaging. Like, if I'm only talking about real estate 100 % of the time, there's only so much I can say, but there's also only so much people can engage with. Yeah, I fully agree. Now, you're a spreadsheet guy. How do you measure the impact of social media on your business? That's a great question. First of all, I want to clear the air that I, cause if anybody watches this that knows me, they're going to say he was not a spreadsheet guy. He was the complete opposite of a spreadsheet guy. This is like in the last year that I've become obsessed. So, and I realized how important they were, but you know what? I don't know that there's a way to track. The only thing that we really do is I track the metrics of like, I know where every single deal has come from through the spreadsheets. So I can tell you how many deals I did from Instagram last year. I don't know that number off the top of my head, so don't test me on it, but it's in my spreadsheet, right? So I can look back, I can look back and see how it's impacting. And you can see like year over year, how the level of effort that I put into Instagram and where those leads came from and how much like, you know, it's a direct correlation. It's always, results are definitely a direct core or always a direct correlation with activity, right? So. But yeah, so we do track that a little bit, but it's one of those things. It's like a billboard. It's like, you can't, you can't necessarily say like, if you ever walk into a listing appointment, somebody's like, I see you everywhere. And you're like, you can't really say exactly where that came from. So you can't put a specific metric on it, but it's just, I think it's just general branding, which is important. Yeah. know, how do you continue to learn and grow as a real estate agent? man, I love, I just think if you're not growing, you're dying. And I think it's important to sharpen the ax. Like, you know, the story about, I think it's Abraham Lincoln talking about how he'd spent his time if he was going to cut the tree down against somebody else. The guy, other guy would start swinging, he'd spend the majority of his time sharpening the ax so that it only took two or three swings to cut the tree down. So I obsess over like training in any way that I can get it and conferences and events. I obsess like, I, there's one event that I went to a couple of years ago that literally completely changed my life. I just went to another one this week. That's, that was going to be pretty impactful as well, but I, it's important for me to get there in order to bring the energy I need to all of these things and also to stay on top of like what's going on and, and, and stay on top of my business. And because like things are changing now more than ever, like over the next 10 years, things are going to change so fast. It's insane. so, so for me, it's those events like getting there. being in a seat, being engaged with the speakers and taking as many notes as I can, because there's always something you can take away. It's getting in the right room with people that you want to be the smallest fish in the room at every possible chance that you get. Yeah, I agree with that. And that's a great thing about being with either a franchise brokerage or brokerage like ours, where we're just one big brokerage that you get to go to these events. I have learned so much from just going to events and I can't tell people enough. You should go at least to two events per year, wouldn't you say? yeah, as many as you can. As many as you can afford. How about that? Yeah, that is the other thing. Exactly. Yeah, they're not cheap. But I know you said that you're not much of a reader, a book guy, but do you have any podcasts or other resources that you can recommend to other agents that they can learn from? Yeah, so I actually, okay, so I'm not a big reader, but I am huge on audiobooks. Like we spend a lot of time in the car. Yeah, hell yeah, then me too. So I try to read as many of those books as I can per year. But yeah, I mean, I'm always onto the next book. There's a few of them that I'll reread pretty much every year. One's the 10X rule. I just obsess over that one. That's like such a... crucial message just of how important activity is. My favorite, yeah, I mean all of this stuff is good. Probably my favorite one of all time is Rich Dad Poor Dad. And the line I use from that book pretty much every single day is sometimes you win, sometimes you learn. I think that's applicable to everything in your life. Like every time something bad happens to you, there's a reason why it happened and you should try to prevent that from happening the next time. So whether it's with your family life. at home or with your friends or at work. There's always something that you can learn from every single experience and that's how you become a better person and have the ability to help other people as well too. So sometimes you win, sometimes you learn from Rich Dad Poor Dad. That's a big line for me. How do you stay motivated and inspired in your career? lately, so my, my career went, had a big swing when we switched to eXp. And I think the biggest thing about all of that was getting around the right people. before we had our own independent brokerage and it was like the number one agent at the brokerage was my dad who owned the brokerage. And first of all, who wants to listen to their dad anyways? So, you know, he, I could only ever get as motivated as him, or I could only get my information from, you know, my dad, that's where it was. So, Now getting around all these agents that are super excited and want to grow, that has kept me motivated and pushed me to a new level. And now the new one is, so now I've been licensed for eight years now, so I'm 29. There's a lot of new agents coming to the business, my brother being one of them, where I know exactly where they are and I know all of the things that they're struggling with and the challenges of those first two to three years. It's so much harder than. Like it does get easier as referrals come in and stuff like that. So, and I'm so passionate about that because somebody reached out and helped me that it really excites me to, it motivates me to go out and produce and show these guys, you know, I just heard this quote recently. I don't know where I heard it, but it was great leaders pull. They don't push. And so having being put in kind of like a relative, like leadership role now with all these newer agents with us has changed the way I look at the business and trying to pull these guys. in order to help their lives be better because somebody did that for me. So those guys are what keep me motivated. Yeah, yeah, mentorship and and leadership are so important, especially to the younger people in our industry. It's crucial. Did you look to your dad for that mentorship when you first started? I tried to avoid it as much as possible. No, I've always looked to my dad for that mentorship. But I was lucky enough when I first started to have, like I said, I started in Ottawa with two younger guys that built one of the biggest teams in that city. So those guys have been big mentors for me along the way. And then... there's a few people at EXP, John Kitchens being probably the most notable with one conversation that I had with him. But there's been some people at EXP who have really helped me and mentored me along the way. And then now our group in Kingston has grown to such a crazy space that we never, you know, never imagined that there's some agents now that we're able to connect with that really, really helped me out on more of like a day -to -day basis. Now you find yourself in the situation where you're a family man. Yeah. Now how do you balance work -life now that you have a young one and a wife? so that's a good question. First of all, like, I don't like the word balance because the word balance to me, because we talked about this so much, it's such a common thing, like work life balance. Like to me, when I think about if I'm trying to balance my work and my personal life, that means I have to choose at any given time between, you know, my work life and my personal life. So I've done my best. I mean, it took me a few years to try to figure this out and I didn't want to. you know, get until I was in the head space where this, you know, I could try to mesh the two. I didn't want to have kids until I had got to that point. So now I feel like my wife works with me. so she's on board with everything that we do. She's my client care coordinator. So I've, I've kind of tried my best to, to find a way to mesh the two, but in order to, to be able to balance or to be there for my family, as much as I am for my clients. I think the biggest things are like leverage. I want to be able to leverage myself in any, in the most amount of ways as possible. So that comes down to asking myself every single day, is this, is what I'm doing right now, the highest and best use of my time? A couple of years ago, I had a big swing in my year and I was like, I tripled my business in 12 months. And so it was like, you know, hockey stick growth and you end up, when you have that kind of growth, you end up kind of scrambling at certain times and, and you're not necessarily on top of everything at, at every given moment. And you end up juggling enough balls, one of them is going to fall, right? So you have to keep the balls in your hand as limited as possible. So you got to hand some down to some other people. But so I made the decision to bring on a business manager, Trevor, who's phenomenal. And he does a lot of the stuff that, you know, may not be the necessarily the best, highest and best use of my time at that given moment. Because it was a big eye opener when I, you know, I was on this trajectory to do all these deals. And I was talking to one of the mentors we just talked about from Ottawa. I'm Tarek Elatar and I was telling him how good my year was. I was like, I don't really know what's next. Like, you know, I'm doing all these appointments. I'm working 12 hours a day. And he's, he's, he said to me in like the straightest tone ever. He's like, well, you don't run a business. And I was so furious. I was like, what are you talking about? I don't run a business. Did you not? Like, I'm telling you about how many deals I did this month and like how good things are going. What do you mean I don't have a business? He's like, well, you have no leverage. And until you have leverage, you don't operate a business. You're just a highly compensated salesperson. I never forgot that because you're only as good as your next deal until you have leverage. I know you can't do that until you reach a certain level, but bringing somebody on and creating leverage in my life, that's been the key to being able to be there for my family and not let the ball drop somewhere else. Yeah, that's great. So what kind of advice would you give to somebody who's struggling with burnout? well, I think it's like where, what's the highest and best use of your time. I mean, the first thing I would say is like, it depends on what level you're struggling with burnout at, because the one thing that I do believe in. It's difficult, but it is my dad. It's one of my dad's favorite quotes. It's you have to be able to be willing to live now how others aren't willing to live so that you can live like others aren't able to later. I think no matter what, if you want to get to another level. you need to sacrifice there has to be some level of sacrifice. So, you know, you have to experience burnout at some point, in my opinion, if you if somebody's found a way to not do that, let me know. But I think you have to be able to Yeah, most people aren't willing to push themselves to that point. So if you are experiencing burnout, good news is you're pushing yourself hard enough that or you're pushing yourself harder than most people aren't willing to. There's a reason that in this business, 20% of agents do 80 % of the work. It's probably more like 10, 90, but it's because they were willing to do that and get pushed themselves to that point of that burnout. But the other thing I'll say is I experienced a lot less burnout when I had my goals in alignment with where I wanted to be. And that comes down to like, you know, why am I doing this? Why am I making the next phone call? Why am I doing what I'm doing? And so for me, I write down my goals every single day. I have a sheet like this. I fill one of these every single day and past tense. I have this, I have that, I've done this. And so when I get met with certain things throughout the day, it's not like, I got to call this lead. I'm so tired. I got to go show this house. It's like, no, I get to go show this house because I want to get to this point in my life for my family and for myself and for the people around me. It makes the decision a lot easier and you don't experience burnout as much because it aligns with your goals and your purpose. And the one recent one that really stuck with me, I heard at this event this week, is not why, it's not like everybody says, talk about your why. And like, it's so important to know your why so that all these things are, all these things are in alignment with that. But the better question is what's at stake? So why, why are you doing all these things? Well, for me, I'm doing it for my family. What's at stake? If I don't make this call, if I don't go to this listing appointment, if I don't pitch every single person, that comes into my open house, then I'm possibly letting my daughter down by not being the man and the father that she deserves, by not creating all the opportunities that I could for my family so that I can invest in their future and their success. That's what's at stake. That one really got me. I almost was crying in the audience, but because it's all, you know, that's my why, but what's at stake and the best way to figure out your why, because some people don't know that's the hardest thing. Like I always knew, I always knew where I wanted, like I, for whatever reason, I think about it a lot. My house burned down when I was 16 years old and I saw like my life flashed before my eyes. And ever since then, I think it was a blessing and a curse, but I saw it's all I constantly am thinking about like where I'm going and you know, every moment is so precious. So I've always been, I've always had some vision. So there's always been a why, but there's never been a like what's at stake or, but the, sorry. So what I was saying is the best way to figure out your why is ask yourself, okay, what is it that you want to do? And then ask yourself why until you can't ask yourself anymore. Well, I want to make a million dollars. Why? I want to make a million dollars so that I have enough money to invest in rental properties, whatever. Why? I need to create enough passive income so that I don't work till the day I die because most agents retirement party is at a funeral home. Well, why? You know, and then you get all the way down to exactly why you want to do things. And for me, it's that I want to leave a lasting impression on everybody that I come and counter with. And I want to leave them better than I found them. Dude, that was straight fire right there. That's the truth. A lot of people got to ask themselves that question, you know, why do they do this? What's the purpose? Better life for our children, right? So, you know, just to sort of wrap this up a little bit, we're getting on in time. I think we could turn this into a two-parter, but what's the best piece of advice you've ever received in your career? The best, I think that, that's a good question. The best piece of advice that I have received. Well, okay, for me, it's, there was one moment in my career and one conversation that completely pivoted my entire business. And I think that part of it is not about what he said, but it's about when he said it. And I think that the only reason it registered so much with me, it was like, Sometimes these things that you hear you hear them and that's why I think it's important to reread these books So you talk about reading the text real three different times You've probably learned something different all the times that you read it, even though it's exact same words every single time You're at a different point in your life Even though you heard it in a different like you're hearing it in a different way because you need to hear something else so for me, I was in my third year in real estate and And I had struggled three years in a row. I had done around 20 transactions for three years in a row and And like I told you the first year I wanted in real estate, I wanted to get to 40 transactions. So I needed to double my business and I needed to figure out how. and I had a conversation with John Kitchens at the bar over on Mojito and this guy literally changed my life in a split second, which is what has fired me up to try to do the same for other people. But he said, well, okay, what percentage of deals are you doing, last year that are buyers and what percentage of sellers? And I said, well, I'm probably doing 80 % buyers and 20 % sellers. And he said, if you focus on one thing, for the next six months, six to 12 months. He's like, if you focus on one thing over the next six to 12 months, I guarantee you, they'll be your business. He said, focus on doing 80 % sellers and 20 % buyers. It seems so simple. It's something we've all heard listings, you know, creating more business, whatever, but just in that moment, it registered with me that this is what I need to be focusing on and all of my efforts need to go towards how many signs can I put in lawns? And then everything else comes after that. And that switched my mentality and ended up tripling my business in the next 12 months. I hit that 40 units in six months after he gave me that piece of advice. So part of it was just that advice alone is the advice, but I was ready to hear it. I had sat on the nail long enough. I had been in pain long enough. I was ready to get out of that and put in the effort that it took to take my business to the next level. But just that little piece of advice, just keeping that in the back of my head, like a burning desire to put as many signs in lawns, that's what took my business to the next level. Last question, how do you define success in your real estate? I think that I define success in my real estate career, how I define it in my entire life, in every aspect of my life. Because I think that what had me low in those first three years doing 20 transactions a year, most people would be satisfied with that, right? I think complacency is a sickness. I think that we all have it. We all get complacent. And I think that for me personally, where the highest level of like, kind of the sense of the word, but like depression or whatever, like, sadness has come from in my life is knowing that I ended my day not leaving everything on the table. Knowing that like in my heart I knew I could be a better man and I didn't leave it out there. I knew that there was another call that I could make but I was too scared to do it. I knew there was another lead that I could follow up with or more value I could have left on the table. I knew I could have got to the gym or I didn't need to eat that burger or whatever. So for me it's not like success is like I'm a millionaire or like with some you know some specific thing. For me it's Success is leaving every single thing that I have on the table every single day and being the best person that I can for every single person that I come in contact with. Because you sleep real well if you go to bed every night knowing that you left everything on the table. Love it, man. So good. And thanks a lot for being on the podcast. One of the things that we love to do here on the podcast is to get you referrals. If somebody has somebody coming in or going out of Kingston, Ontario, what is the best way to reach you? phone number 613 -583 -0097, but you can find me on Instagram, just like at Patent-O -Dough, and I sure hope I'm the first one that comes up, especially if you put in Kinks, Ontario. So, yeah. Absolutely, and I'll have all that information in the show notes for this podcast once again pat Thank you. You absolutely brought some fire today and In huge value as well. So thank you very much for being a guest I'm glad that we got it together even though I couldn't convince you to buy a new computer Billy. Thanks for having me on. Alright, always a pleasure. Take care of yourself. Cheers.